Anyone else...

[K9]

Feel awkward with Chet bringing a Sidearm to last sundays Coffee run? :???:

[highlander]

Well Not really. I have my Concealed permit as well... Just I conceal mine!!!!! That's why I got it.

Do I have it?

Or do I not? *LOL*

I grew up with too many guns :twisted:

[XTrmXJ]

I didnt know he had his on him but I really dont care for the Cocky Bastard, Second off THERE WERE CHILDREN THERE.. Third "WHY', Is he that scared of me

[Rockjock]

I guess you never know when a crazed uncontrolled dog will show up to reak havoc on law obiding citizens. They are meat eaters and killers hell bent on taking over thus world starting with destroying the young kids that were there. I for one feel very comfortable know he is there to protect me since Law Officers are tax collecters with no legal responsibility to protect me.

[K9]

True dat. Sunday morning in Yorktown can be rough at times. :cheers:

[gtrsnax]

Especially at Wawa's. One time, I saw a grenade fight break out! Im never going back there again

[XTrmXJ]

Didnt you guys see those two guys last week at the coffee run ramming each other with there vehicals, That could have gotten out of hand

[jp]

i really cant think of something more inappropriate than to bring a firearm to a goddamn coffee run. gotta be kiddin me.

if someone is so fixated on their weapon they cant NOT HAVE IT AROUND for a couple of hours they really need to be ask not to show up.

jp

[IH8RDS]

I dont have problems with guns, but we could always have are meeting at a church :shock:

[jp]

or a school. mall. library. synagogue. daycare. court building

:roll:

jp

[dodgemrmm]

GUNS???!!! Um.. guys, you said FAMILY ORIENTED!!!

[Mitch]

We are and he only trolls around a bit... no worries :mrgreen:

[dodgemrmm]

Ok, as long as he doesnt show it to my kids :paddle: we will have issues!! but its all good...

[currupt]

alright let me post my opinion without getting murdered

first off, its his given right to carry his sidearm where-ever he may so choose, wether it was at a coffee run or what it doesnt matter, for all we know his buisness and affairs could take him places where he may deem it necessary (granted a coffee run isnt)

second off, its up to the rest of us to protect each others rights and no one has the right to discriminate anyone elses rights just because they dont like it. im sure if it bothered you all enough someone would have said "hey chet, do you mind not bringing your sidearm with you to the coffee run?" which would have been appropriate and considerate.

third off, i believe chet is a responsible and i know that he is an extremely intelligent guy, after having many talks and discussions with him, he has struck me as nothing but that.

fourth off, he may be opinionated, but im sure if you were to explain your discomfort to him, he more than likely would accomodate you all's requests without any trouble.

anyway, just my .02
-sam

[mell0n]

Well yeah... There's a time and place for everything but I don't think a coffee run is the time nor the place. You never know when things can get out of hand and people take things the wrong way and someone gets upset and the next thing you know there is someone laying on the ground with a bullet in them. Emotions seem to always get the best of people.

[jp]

i don't know what he does for a living and don't really care. bottom line, its INNAPROPRIATE to bring a firearm to a coffee run.

i think that this thread alone pretty much states the feelings of the action, and that if someone needs to speak with him (pm, phone, etc) to ask that he not repeat bringing it then it will be done.

jp

[Rockjock]

Oh now I just think you are all funny. And I love BEER! :cheers:

[mell0n]

I agree plus people bring their kids and stuff. What kind of example is that to set for kids? Yeah maybe your kids might be brought up with guns and crap but not everyone is your kid. I personally like guns but you don't see me bringing my shotgun with me (unless I have to stop by the bank on the way there)

[jp]

lol, "Allison" Oakley.

http://www.unitedmaskandparty.com/Halloween/images/annie_oakley.JPG

now THAT's hot. lol.

jp

[mell0n]

lol I would go for red boots though.

[gtrsnax]

All things aside......the facts are that as long as he's licensed, he can take the gun where ever unless some other state or govt guideline overrides his right. HOWEVER.......my opinion is that it is a little much. Not wrong, just a little much.
Now, we dont have ALL the facts though. Maybe, from the coffee run he was planning on going to some other place where it's perfectly acceptable to carry a sidearm (walking in the woods out in Glucester or something), and I would argue its even LESS responsible to leave the gun in your vehicle unattended, so, better that its "on your person" (as they say in the business).
Legal? Yes.
Sensible? Arguable at best.
Some might say crazy, and some might say its best to be prepared for anything. Because, the unexpected is never planned.
So, Im not siding here, just wanted to make sure that both sides are represented best here.

[dodgemrmm]

okay, I did not mean for this to become a debate, I was just saying, I hope he doesnt show my kids, I dont care if he carries it if he is licensed, etc... in fact its his right, was just stating the obvious, he is allowed, and yes, I do not know all the facts on where he was going to go etc...so I apologize, :( so if I stepped on anyones toes, I am sorry, but I probably will do it often, opinions are opinions!!! hee hee :razz:

[jp]

fell free to opionate all you want. lol. thats the beauty of a forum with free speech and no one getting bent outta shape about things.

everyone has their opinion and with opinions come consensus.

no harn no foul.

jp

[K9]

alright let me post my opinion without getting murdered

-first off, its his given right to carry his sidearm .
-second off, its up to the rest of us to protect each others rights.
-third off, i believe chet is a responsible and i know that he is an extremely intelligent guy,.
-fourth off, he may be opinionated, .
anyway, just my .02
-sam
This is a piss poor rebuttal as nobody contested any of these fine points.

However, the moment in question was if anyone else felt it was inappropriate to bring a sidearm to a socialable meeting. Take a rough analogy like screaming "rat" crowded resturant, while not illegal, it is frowned upon by many.

[currupt]

[quote=currupt]-fourth off, he may be opinionated, but he is more than willing to accomodate you and any discomfort he may cause .
anyway, just my .02
-sam

that was the actual point of point four. all of this aside, ill agree it might have been inappropriate for him to bring it, but if it was so uncomfortable, why didnt someone just ask him if he wouldnt mind locking it up in his console? out of sight, out of mind, and out of reach under lock and key

[highlander]

True on that, I wasn't there but I will admit that I would have asked him politely to remove it at the time.

I understand it's a right to bear arms (I bear one also) But for PETE"S sake......

It's called a
concealedpermit for a reason!!!!!!!

Trust me if I was to carry to a meeting (which I wouldn't in the first place) you would never know :twisted:

That's why it's a concealed permit and not an open carry! :thumb:

[Mitch]

He didn't stay very long at the coffee run that Sunday, and no I didn't see it. The first coffee run he didn't bring it. If I had seen I would have said something... trust me.
On that same note I would ask that no one bring any dangerous weapons to a DSO function or get together. Please.

[highlander]

Never will.... won't need it I think we're crazy enough to scare the bad men away!!!!! :mrgreen:

But just try to touch my cherokee :paddle: :flip:

[Renegade]

I understand that some of you may have felt uncomfortable when I happened upon the recent meeting. I was gassing up at Wawa and noticed all the rigs, one had a hood up, and I stopped by to see if I could help since my house is just a few miles away. Lucky me...it was a meeting!

For all of you that are truly worried about me legally carrying...I believe what you are really worried about is how YOU would react given a situation if YOU were carrying. I have carried longer than most of you have been alive and have never committed a crime or had an accident while carrying.

There is quite a bit of misinformation being tossed about in this post which I will clear up.

In the Commonwealth of Virginia open carry (OC) is a right - concealed carry (CC) is a privilege. The Virginia State Constitution (Article I, Section XIII) does not grant us the right to OC, it recognizes that we are born with the God-given right to keep and bear arms. Keeping arms is what most folks do…I keep and bear. A right unexercised is a right lost.

CC is a different story: if I wish to CC in VA I must submit an application along with proof of training, fingerprints, background check, etc. Driving is a privilege also…you DO NOT have the right to drive – the state grants you that opportunity.

Some interesting facts regarding carry in VA:

- OC is permitted in a restaurant or club that is licensed to serve alcohol, CC is not permitted. Example: I go out to eat with my family at a restaurant that serves alcohol, I am required to OC.
- School property (elementary, middle, high) is OK for CC as long as I remain in the vehicle and the firearm remains concealed. Example: I drop my kids off for school in the morning while carrying concealed – as long as I stay in the vehicle I am OK. You can also have a firearm on school property provided that it is kept in the vehicle, unloaded, and locked in an enclosed container. Neither a glovebox nor a center console are considered enclosed containers – a trunk is. The firearm MUST be unloaded and locked in this container while OFF school property.
- Airport terminals are off-limits for OC and CC – all other airport property is OK for OC and CC.
- Private property when prohibited by owner of property.
- Courthouse – off limits for OC and CC.
- Place of religious worship while religious services are being held unless there is “good and sufficient reason.”

DO NOT treat the above information as a "guide" to OC and/or CC. If you wish to practice either YOU are responsible for reading the suitable law and understanding it yourself.

Now onto the reason why I choose to carry: simple, it is my right. If you live in some abstract world where you believe that “crime does not happen here” or “it always happens to the other guy” you are wrong - just talk to local law enforcement. Criminals practice their trade without regard to your beliefs or where you live.

I have had zero problems OC or CC. Over the past few months alone I have encountered dozens of law enforcement officers and none have even given me a second look – I am confident that all of them were aware that I was armed – they are trained to look for firearms.

Carrying (open or concealed) 100% of the time obligates me to live at a higher level of safety. I am always aware of my surroundings and would NEVER decide to leave my firearm locked in a vehicle. This simply invites a criminal to break in and guess what…now a criminal has a firearm.

Finally…I view firearms much the same way I do seatbelts: I would rather have it and never need it – than need it and never have it.

This is a free country and you are free to make your own choices – and so am I.

PS – If you see a fellow carrying open rest assured that he is not a criminal, and is of sound mind and body. The guys that are not permitted to carry open are the ones I would be worried about.

[XTrmXJ]

Plain and simple, have common curtisy, if you decide to come to the coffee runs leave the weapon in your vehical (glove box or were ever) out of view (if you are CC registerd) or dont come at all...

[jp]

there is no misinformation. no one cares why you carry it, the consensus is don't bring it or don't show up.

jp

[unlimited_freq]

I personally don't understand what the big deal is. This man, that I dont know, decides to exercise his RIGHT and it makes a couple of people nervous. Whatever

[jp]

there are many clubs, organizations, etc that ask that people not do things such as bring glass/open containers or alcohol when wheeling, illegal substances, firearms, etc. most large organized clubs and wheeling events are like this for peoples safety.

its not a matter of someone being qualified to carry a firearm or not. its just asked that the person NOT bring items that are potentially dangerous to events, whether that be a coffee run or a trail run.

its also not a matter of the federal, state or locals laws regarding the carrying of a concealed or open carrying of a firearm. this is something that seems to be a consensus of the people that are a part of this club. if this needs to be set as a club rule, ill let someone propose that.

with that said, ive never been in a club EVER that has allowed people openly carry a weapon. i cant imagine someone being trusted with the carrying of a firearm NOT agreeing to accept terms of belonging to such a group as this. i would also say that if that person is told not to bring a firearm to a club function and does so that they be asked to not participate in the club any longer.

jp

[unlimited_freq]

fair enough
just one last thought fom the redneck
guns don't kill people, people do

[Mitch]

I'm not, nor is anyone else here disputing his right to carry. I simply ask that no one bring any dangerous weapon to a DSO function. There is no need to have one there. If you can't grant me or others who feel the same way a common courtesy of not brining it then you are not welcome... plain and simple.
And yes it does make me feel uneasy... especially when there are children in the area. You never know what will happen. So if it is not there, then there is no chance of an accident happening.

[Stubby]

I'm not, nor is anyone else here disputing his right to carry. I simply ask that no one bring any dangerous weapon to a DSO function. There is no need to have one there. If you can't grant me or others who feel the same way a common courtesy of not brining it then you are not welcome... plain and simple.
And yes it does make me feel uneasy... especially when there are children in the area. You never know what will happen. So if it is not there, then there is no chance of an accident happening.

Well said.
And for those of you defending someone carrying (and displaying) a loaded weapon around children or at a "social" event is seriously messed up, IMHO. No place for that.

[Renegade]

Plain and simple, have common curtisy
Common courtesy…how about respecting my RIGHTS as amended in December 1791? Keep in mind…these are RIGHTS…not PRIVELADGES. Rights such as: freedom of religion, freedom of speech, freedom of peaceable assembly, freedom to petition the government, and freedom to keep and BEAR ARMS.

there is no misinformation. no one cares why you carry it, the consensus is don't bring it or don't show up.
Sorry, but unless you meet on private property (Ian’s place maybe?) you have nothing to say in the matter. When meeting in a public place you DO NOT have the right to limit my rights.

I personally don't understand what the big deal is. This man, that I dont know, decides to exercise his RIGHT and it makes a couple of people nervous. Whatever
Thank you for your consideration. To be honest…this has nothing to do with firearms, rights, etc. It has everything to do with a handful of people who have personal problems with me. Fact is…I call a spade a spade and I know what I am talking about: be it Jeeps, math, or law…

there are many clubs, organizations, etc that ask that people not do things such as bring glass/open containers or alcohol when wheeling, illegal substances, firearms, etc. most large organized clubs and wheeling events are like this for peoples safety.
On the contrary, I can not think of one club/organization that I have ever been a member of that had anything to say regarding an individuals RIGHTS. You do not have the right to bring glass/open containers, alcohol, or illegal substances, to any public/private event but you do have the RIGHT to carry in public.

its just asked that the person NOT bring items that are potentially dangerous to events, whether that be a coffee run or a trail run.
Let’s get logical here…how many people are killed by vehicles every year? Compare that to how many law-abiding citizens are killed by other law-abiding citizens every year. Gee…you are starting to see the light! Law-abiding citizens DO NOT murder people…criminals do – they do it with clubs, knives, firearms, vehicles, etc. Maybe you should run a criminal background check on all the members of DSO and whoever pops up (like the guy in the XJ that killed that young mother a month ago...while he was driving drunk!) on NCIC you can ask THEM not to show up at any events.

this is something that seems to be a consensus of the people that are a part of this club. if this needs to be set as a club rule, ill let someone propose that.
Re-read a few paragraphs above regarding RIGHTS. If you are a public club, meet in public places, or wheel on public land…you have no say when it comes to the RIGHTS that we are all born with. I have no right to inhibit any of your rights either – I would never even consider it – I respect YOUR RIGHTS.

I'm not, nor is anyone else here disputing his right to carry.
Then what are you doing? Don’t lie to yourself…what you are doing IS disputing my RIGHT to carry.

I simply ask that no one bring any dangerous weapon to a DSO function.
I would never carry a dangerous weapon – I carry a firearm. Take a look at your Jeep and consider how dangerous it is. Would your Jeep pass a “real” inspection or would it fail for safety violations? A vehicle that fails is considered DANGEROUS by the state. How many people could you run over on a full tank of gas if you were really having a bad day by using your vehicle as a weapon? Hundreds I bet…several at a time. My firearm can only protect me from a very small number of people…none at the same time. Unless I am some crack shot death would not be very probable…you don’t need that good of an aim with a six foot wide bumper.

There is no need to have one there.
Who are you to judge the need for protection? Is there crime in Yorktown? If not…why do they have police? Sure there is crime…there is crime everywhere. Some places have more crime than others but there is crime everywhere and unless you have some God-given ability to accurately predict crime you must be prepared to deal with it anytime, anywhere.

Riddle me this batman: what are you willing to do to protect your children, anything? Stop fooling yourself batman. Explain in detail what you would do if you were confronted by an armed criminal? Maybe you are sitting at home in a nice neighborhood and some thug kick the door down...he is looking to have some fun...with you, your wife, and children. Sound far fetched? It happens every day in anytown, USA. Man killed, wife raped and murdered, children...well, they are missing right now but we have their pictures on Amber alert and hope to find them. So, how are you going to protec them if you can't even protect yourself? You a gambling man? You are if you are not always prepared to deal with everything, anytime, anywhere.

Wake up or die. Please don't take that as any sort of threat...it is a wake up call - you may be called upon to protect your family someday.

How about the folks in New Orleans??? Where were the police??? We saw where the criminals were...everywhere. Even breaking into houses in nice neighborhoods...

And yes it does make me feel uneasy... especially when there are children in the area. You never know what will happen. So if it is not there, then there is no chance of an accident happening.
Don’t pull that children crap on me – I have three of my own…all in grade school. If you feel at ALL uneasy it is because you are not educated regarding the safe handling of firearms. I won’t go into any lengthy discussion regarding the chances of a child being accidentally harmed by a trained, law-abiding citizen, legally carrying a firearm but suffice to say if there were ANY reasonable chance of harm taking place I would not carry in public around ANY children or adults and the law would certainly prohibit it. Now nearly ever state requires children to travel in car/safety seats and ride in the back…once again, how many of them still die in accidents…how many around here have died so far this year from vehicle accidents…dozens for sure. How many were harmed by a trained, law-abiding citizen, legally carrying a firearm? Zero. Zip, Nada.


Well said. And for those of you defending someone carrying (and displaying) a loaded weapon around children or at a "social" event is seriously messed up, IMHO. No place for that.
Carrying and displaying/brandishing are two very different actions. NEVER have I displayed or brandished my firearm at a DSO meet in a public place. If the social event takes place in a public place…your “feelings” regarding being messed up are unfounded. There IS a place for that…both the Federal and Commonwealth constitutions reaffirm our God-given rights…one being the right to keep and bear arms.


Here is a PDF file written by a civil libertarian regarding firearms – read up and stop believing the lies you have been brainwashed with: Gun Facts (http://www.gunfacts.info/pdfs/gun-facts/4.0/GunFacts4-0-Screen.pdf)

This is nothing personal against any of you – I don’t know who each of you are nor do I really care – this has everything to do with one of the RIGHTS that our country was founded upon. I challenge ALL of you…not to attack me – but to attack my post above in a scholarly debate. Game on…

[jp]

if your so oppressed then don't come back. no seriously, consider that me asking you to not come back.

jp

[Rockjock]

I never get quoted damit!!!!!! Not here not anywhere!!!!! :mad:

[K9]

I'm sure the Snipers taking pop shots at New Orleans Choppers and firefighters totally support ya. Because you Sir, fight for their rights too.

Are you serious, you want to have a scholary debate on guns? Doesn't that defeat the point of weapons to begin with?

[Rockjock]

Are you serious, you want to have a scholary debate on guns? Doesn't that defeat the point of weapons to begin with?

:up: You kill me. :thumb:

Edit: No pun intended.

[Rockjock]

Renegade wrote: " Law-abiding citizens DO NOT murder people…criminals do – they do it with clubs, knives, firearms, vehicles"

Wouldn't everyone be considered a law abiding citizen until they commit a criminal act?

[Rockjock]

"Don’t pull that children crap on me – I have three of my own…all in grade school. If you feel at ALL uneasy it is because you are not educated regarding the safe handling of firearms. "

You must be kidding right? You can't believe kids are not accidently injured by firearms?

"I won’t go into any lengthy discussion regarding the chances of a child being accidentally harmed by a trained, law-abiding citizen, legally carrying a firearm but suffice to say if there were ANY reasonable chance of harm taking place I would not carry in public around ANY children or adults and the law would certainly prohibit it."

Can you drive your oh so deadly Jeep around these kids? You are admitidly not a law abiding citizen when it comes to driving? Just havn't been caught in a while.

"Now nearly ever state requires children to travel in car/safety seats and ride in the back…once again, how many of them still die in accidents…how many around here have died so far this year from vehicle accidents…dozens for sure. How many were harmed by a trained, law-abiding citizen, legally carrying a firearm? Zero. Zip, Nada."

I completly disagree children are injured weekly or daily by citizens legally carrying firearms. I can prove it.

:cheers:

[Rockjock]

"I won’t go into any lengthy discussion regarding the chances of a child being accidentally harmed by a trained, law-abiding citizen, legally carrying a firearm but suffice to say if there were ANY reasonable chance of harm taking place I would not carry in public around ANY children or adults and the law would certainly prohibit it."

Guns are designed to cause harm! You carry to cause harm and you can't tell me you didn't know this. If you did not know this you should not be aloud to carry a gun. If you carry a gun I support it but as it has been said if I was carrying a gun people wouldn't know it. I don't flaunt it and try and make it a cool factor.

[Rockjock]

"…this has nothing to do with firearms, rights, etc. It has everything to do with a handful of people who have personal problems with me. Fact is…I call a spade a spade"

I can see this.


"and I know what I am talking about: be it Jeeps, math, or law…"

You think you know what you are talking about. You come across as opinionated, egotisticle, and arrogant, and this is no way to get your point across. Let you be the first to cast a stone. You have to remember that there is always going to be someone bigger, stronger and smarter than you. I am getting way off the issue at hand, and am not trying to get personal (you might shoot me...lol) but you should really re think your tactics and maybe come down a level or two.....

[jp]

kev. its cool man, don't lower yourself buddy, there will be NO shit stirring on here. we are ALL allowed to be a part of the democratic process of DSO. there's no need for a debate.

bottom line. if anyone is not willing to be a part of the consensus of the group then you are not welcome. we are majority rule here and im looking at the majority sentiments on this.

you can read the posts and i believe that people have spoken their minds on this issue. leave it at home or don't show up.

jp

[Rockjock]

I have been drinking what do you expect. I have to close one eye to type. :mrgreen:

[jp]

lol, that's my boy! have one for me.

jp

[Rockjock]

Will do that right now. :cheers:

[mell0n]

Wow I just got a headache from reading all that. lol ....

[Mitch]

Ok I'll play your silly little game this time.
Well... first off... If you think I'm not qualified in weapons handling then you are sadly mistaken... I don't carry or own one, because frankly I don't need one. Doesn't mean I don't how to handle/use one.
If someone were to come into my nice little safe home and bring a weapon he had better fire as he were walking through the door, and start by killing me and my visicuos ass dog by shooting it in the back. then he might have a slight chance. If not then I gaurantee he'll be leaving five minutes later with his bad ass gun shoved completely up his ass.

Second...if you think York County is a crime ridden place to live where you need to carry a gun everywhere you go... then do yourself a favor, and don't leave your home. Because your living in Mayberry brother, and you don't know crime. Don't know if you noticed or not but most aren't carrying puny ass little 9mm, their the ones with the semi automatics. And they would fill you full of lead before you even got one off. Either that or they are dumb-ass rednecks throwing back a few and saying "Hey Rodney... watch this!"

Third...Don't think because you read a gun fun facts pamphlet that it makes you qualified to carry and protect yourself. I don't care what you read, or what training you have had. 100% of all "gun accidents" are from homes that have supposedly have had the same qualifications you have. Anything else is just called crime.

Fourth... Cry me a river about your right to carry... I already told you I don't oppose that, the majority here says either don't bring it or don't come... we left you your right to choose, quit your crying. Not to mention I did ask nicely. Wake up call Chet...You don't get to infringe your rights at the the expense of others. Just like your opions... no one cares.

I broke it down a little for you so you could quote me again and I can hear your ranting and raving drama queen antics about this some more....

Basically man, I tried to be nice... I simply asked that "no one" (so you don't think I'm just picking on you) bring weapons to a DSO function. It's the majority rule... which by the way is the democratic way to go about it. But you can't take it and say ok I'll respect others feelings and rights and either leave it locked up in my vehicle or not to bring it at all. Thanks for being understanding to others and not being a complete asshat who thinks only your rights matter.





Mitch

[XTrmXJ]

Ive been drinking, but what he said is 120% agreed

[IH8RDS]

I just got back, my brain hurts from reading this. Here you go Kevin.


I never get quoted damit!!!!!! Not here not anywhere!!!!! :mad:

[Renegade]

I'm sure the Snipers taking pop shots at New Orleans Choppers and firefighters totally support ya. Because you Sir, fight for their rights too.
No Ian…I support the rights of law abiding citizens, period. If you care to extrapolate your above remark I will be happy to defend mine.

Are you serious, you want to have a scholary debate on guns? Doesn't that defeat the point of weapons to begin with?
Yes, Ian – a scholarly debate…let me start it off: firearms are a last resort when there is not other option available except certain death. Share with me your detailed plans of exactly what you would do if your family were cornered by an armed criminal.


Wouldn't everyone be considered a law abiding citizen until they commit a criminal act?
Yes, as most law enforcement officers would attest – once a criminal, always a criminal. This country is not populated with a majority being criminals – this country is rife with repeat offenders who serve a few months/years, and get right back out to commit the next crime.

You must be kidding right? You can't believe kids are not accidently injured by firearms?
Name one instance when a child removed a firearm from the holster of a law-abiding citizen and was injured. Take your time because in my 38 years on this earth I have NEVER heard of one incident. Now firearms left carelessly about by an irresponsible adult…that is another story. Mine are either properly secured or on my hip – no chance of a child being injured but much opportunity for me to protect my child if need be.

I completly disagree children are injured weekly or daily by citizens legally carrying firearms. I can prove it.
Here is your chance to prove me wrong – cite one source that reports a child being injured by a citizen legally carrying a firearm. It should be easy to find since it happens daily/weekly as you state


Guns are designed to cause harm! You carry to cause harm and you can't tell me you didn't know this. If you did not know this you should not be aloud to carry a gun. If you carry a gun I support it but as it has been said if I was carrying a gun people wouldn't know it. I don't flaunt it and try and make it a cool factor.
Firearms are tools. They are used to put food on the table – they are used by farmers to protect their livestock – they are used by professionals that put themselves in harms way for our benefit (police, sheriff, armed forces, etc.) – they are used for competitive target practice – and they are used by law abiding citizens as a last resort to protect their family from harm.


You think you know what you are talking about. You come across as opinionated, egotisticle, and arrogant, and this is no way to get your point across. Let you be the first to cast a stone. You have to remember that there is always going to be someone bigger, stronger and smarter than you. I am getting way off the issue at hand, and am not trying to get personal (you might shoot me...lol) but you should really re think your tactics and maybe come down a level or two.....
I have never claimed to have a soothing voice or be understanding of others ignorance – you call me opinionated, egotistical, and arrogant – I call you intimidated and unresponsive to any legitimate argument.

I agree with you regarding there will always be someone bigger, stronger, and smarter – but I feel I am one hell of a package. In the military I was paid a great amount of money to live the life others dreams of – all those I encountered wished they could be like me and the several hundred others that had the same job – they never stepped up too the plate – never had the balls – or if they did they tried and failed – I stepped up, hung it out, and survived two years of training that was not only physically, but mentally, demanding. Two years of attending training/classes that had attrition rates sometimes exceeding 80%. Yeah, I am damn good…

For giggles I decided to try my hand at superbike racing a decade ago - you know, the bikes that go 170mph and the racers lean over in their leather suits with kevlar body armor and drag their knee through turns - lucky me!!! As a privateer, I competed in the WERA Grand National Challenge series racking all over north america against hundreds of other superbike racers - at the end of the year I took 2nd place overall in the entire nation in the 750cc Superbike class! Yeah, I am good at everything I do. Care to check my story: call WERA (770.720.5010) and ask for records on my license (WERA #13884) for the 1996 season. I was awarded my professional license at a special dinner at the eng of the season!


kev. its cool man, don't lower yourself buddy, there will be NO shit stirring on here. we are ALL allowed to be a part of the democratic process of DSO. there's no need for a debate.
I was under the impression that debate was the very heart and soul of the democratic process. Correct me if I am wrong.

you can read the posts and i believe that people have spoken their minds on this issue. leave it at home or don't show up.
Don’t flatter yourselves – I have no desire to join your club, wheel with any of you, etc. I just wanted to take another opportunity to teach you all something. 

I have been drinking what do you expect. I have to close one eye to type. :mrgreen:
Drinking…not to point fingers but nothing good is associated with drinking. The only thing drinking does is help you ignore reality.

lol, that's my boy! have one for me.
Another drinker!


Ok I'll play your silly little game this time.
Great – let’s debate and have some fun.

Well... first off... If you think I'm not qualified in weapons handling then you are sadly mistaken... I don't carry or own one, because frankly I don't need one. Doesn't mean I don't how to handle/use one.
Mitch – I never questioned your qualifications – I questioned your education regarding the safe handling. A qualification is very much an accomplishment, you do this and we give you that. This is a good start and is more related to training – they teach you how to do this, not to do that, etc. But they do not teach you why it is important to do this or that – they do not discuss theory, etc. Education takes you beyond training.

If someone were to come into my nice little safe home and bring a weapon he had better fire as he were walking through the door, and start by killing me and my visicuos ass dog by shooting it in the back. then he might have a slight chance. If not then I gaurantee he'll be leaving five minutes later with his bad ass gun shoved completely up his ass.
I am not sure I understand just what you would do. Would you use your own personal firearm to defeat the intruder? Or are you some superhuman that can catch bullets in your teeth and spit them back at twice the speed? Tell us…I am interested in hearing exactly what you would do.

I would not recommend you shove his firearm up his you-know-what. In today’s world you would most likely be sued and end up paying him for the rest of his life for the suffering an humiliation you caused.

Here is what I would do if an armed intruder were to enter my home: position myself between my family and the intruder, allow my family to seek safe passage to a safer place: outside, upstairs, etc., and finally I would have them call the local law enforcement to remove the intruder from my property. If it appeared that he intended, and was able to harm my family, and there was no other option, I would defend them as a last resort. I hope and pray I never see the day…but just in case – I am always prepared.

Second...if you think York County is a crime ridden place to live where you need to carry a gun everywhere you go... then do yourself a favor, and don't leave your home. Because your living in Mayberry brother, and you don't know crime. Don't know if you noticed or not but most aren't carrying puny ass little 9mm, their the ones with the semi automatics. And they would fill you full of lead before you even got one off. Either that or they are dumb-ass rednecks throwing back a few and saying "Hey Rodney... watch this!"
Bad eyes on your part Mitch – you don’t see the crime in Yorktown or the fact that I prefer a .45 vice a 9mm. You may have not noticed, but my firearm is semi-automatic too - every time I pull the trigger, one shot is fired until all ammunition is expended.

Was I imagining things when I read the report of the bank just a half-mile south of Wawa being robbed at gunpoint?

Hmmm…you last statement beginning with “And they would fill you full of lead…” worries me – or was that the alcohol talking?

Third...Don't think because you read a gun fun facts pamphlet that it makes you qualified to carry and protect yourself. I don't care what you read, or what training you have had. 100% of all "gun accidents" are from homes that have supposedly have had the same qualifications you have. Anything else is just called crime.
Mitch – I have spent three decades safely firing guns, reading about guns, etc. It was when I was eight or nine that I was given my first firearm as a gift by my father – a single action, drop-block .22 rimfire. Still have it. That pamphlet is simply a nice condensed version of the truth regarding firearms. You don’t believe everything the media reports do you? Most gun accidents are not from homes such as mine – as I stated earlier, my firearm is either secured properly or on my hip. Very little chance of an accident taking place.

Carrying takes you to a new level of awareness and safety – I am always aware of my surroundings and acknowledge that I am obligated to act in a safer manner than the average citizen. Too bad most don’t feel the same way when they are behind the wheel of a vehicle…or worse yet, behind the wheel after a few drinks. Whew…not THAT is dangerous and irresponsible.

Care to take a bet? I bet you that I could find more people killed in the month of July from alcohol related accidents than you can find that were killed by law abiding citizens carrying firearms. Get back to me with your numbers.

Fourth... Cry me a river about your right to carry... I already told you I don't oppose that, the majority here says either don't bring it or don't come... we left you your right to choose, quit your crying. Not to mention I did ask nicely. Wake up call Chet...You don't get to infringe your rights at the the expense of others. Just like your opions... no one cares.
OK…I thank you for not opposing my right to carry anywhere I am legally able to. Regarding your majority rule statement – unless you are meeting on private property, there is nothing illegal regarding me being in the same public place as you. You do have the right to prohibit someone from carrying a firearm when they are on your property but when in public…civil rights trump your clubs democratic process. Well, the feeling of a few select people in your club anyway.

Basically man, I tried to be nice... I simply asked that "no one" (so you don't think I'm just picking on you) bring weapons to a DSO function. Thanks for being understanding to others and not being a complete asshat who thinks only your rights matter.
I appreciate your attempt to be nice Mitch – I am not just saying that – I do appreciate it. But I feel we all know whom we are talking about here. And we all know that if one of your inner sanctum of DSO were to carry none of you would object. Let’s be honest – this is an attempt for you guys to exclude me from your events – for obvious reasons (mental and physical ability, off-road experience, alluring looks, charming demeanor, etc.) you guys are intimidated by me.

No one in DSO can really logically argue anything I say. Your only rebuttal is “our democratic process” and blah, blah, blah. No guys…sorry – in a public place I have the RIGHT, as enumerated in our beloved Constitution, to keep and bear arms. I have no desire to break the law (drinking and driving, carrying where I am prohibited, etc.) and make an extra effort to avoid places where there could be potential conflict.
My efforts to avoid potential conflict would suggest that I steer clear from DSO club functions. That is fine as I have no desire to do anything with any of you – honestly. I just want you all to understand that there is nothing that prohibits me from occupying the same public place as you, or your club, should we meet. If you meet on private land – different story – if the owner asks that firearms no be brought on his property – he has the right and I will honor his right.

Anyway…let’s continue to debate since a few of you still have quite a bit to learn regarding what your rights are versus privileges.

[K9]

My efforts to avoid potential conflict would suggest that I steer clear from DSO club functions.


Trolls are users who actively provoke conflict. Rather hypocritical isn't it?

[Renegade]

Trolls are users who actively provoke conflict. Rather hypocritical isn't it?
Hey Ian...since you are on...make sure and reply to my post above.

Not provoking conflict - just a simple debate.

Do you have the courage to debate on how you "feel" I support illegal citizens sniping at law enforcement and military? You know I do not support criminals. I abhor them.

[K9]

I doubt I'm in a position to debate something that was written 200 years prior to my birth by a bunch of religious gun fanatics. I can't win that today.

However, my arguement was to see if anyone else felt awkward. My immediate impression is that you like to intimidate others, and feed off their fear like all the other criminals out there.

[Mitch]

this isn't you wanting to debate Chet. This is you bringing your drama here. Your right to carry...inspections.... All dogs are vicious.... you already stated you didn't have any intention of joining DSO. So then why are you really here. Looks to me that you got a call from one of your buddies and decided to bring your shit here... Go Back

[K9]

Yes, go away Tackleberry. :cheers:

http://www.tinet.ru/~stern/mix/police/pa1_8.jpg

[Mitch]

:wave:

[K9]

http://www.netshrine.com/vbulletin2/images/smilies/moon.gif

[Renegade]

I doubt I'm in a position to debate something that was written 200 years prior to my birth by a bunch of religious gun fanatics. I can't win that today.
Religious gun fanatics? How about freedom loving individuals that understood the value of a free society and also realized that in order to preserve this freedom the ultimate power should remain in the hands of the populace?

See, with over 80 million Americans collectively owning 230 million firearms...we have a checks-and-balances system established. The government is on a short leash...

However, my arguement was to see if anyone else felt awkward. My immediate impression is that you like to intimidate others, and feed off their fear like all the other criminals out there.
Well, I am aware of the fact that people may feel somewhat awkward since our society has been brainwashed to believe that firearms equal crime and violence. I am just taking the opportunity to promote safe carry and show other citizens that firearms should not be viewed as a bad, but a good thing.

I have no desire to intimidate anyone - if I did so I apologize. I carry to protect myself and my family – not too intimidate. My guess is that since you assumed that I would desire to frighten by legally carrying that is exactly the reason YOU would carry a firearm for – to intimidate others.

Do not associate me with criminals Ian…my background has been checked by local, state, and federal law enforcement – there is no question that I am a law abiding citizen.

[LittleXJ]

whats wrong with carrying around a gun? As soon as I turn 21 I'm getting my concealed permit. My 1911 will go wherever I go.

If you don't have a concealed permit, you have to carry your weapon where it is visible.

[Renegade]

Yes, go away Tackleberry. :cheers:

http://www.tinet.ru/~stern/mix/police/pa1_8.jpg
Name calling...now Ian, is that professional and adult like?

Or are you just not prepared to argue your point in a dignified manner?

[Renegade]

whats wrong with carrying around a gun? As soon as I turn 21 I'm getting my concealed permit. My 1911 will go wherever I go.

If you don't have a concealed permit, you have to carry your weapon where it is visible.
There is nothing wrong with legally carrying a firearm.

If you are the legal owner of a firearm you are permitted on the commonwealth of Virginia to carry open.

You are correct in stating that you must be 21 to apply for a concealed carry permit.

[K9]

Name calling...now Ian, is that professional and adult like?

Now I am somewhat offended you confused me with a professional. But I can let this pass in a non-violent manner.

As far as name calling, it was an absolute compliment. Most of my gun carrying friends grin when called Tackleberry. Is tackleberry a bad thing?

[Mitch]

Tackleberry was cool... he got the big tittied chick!!!

[K9]

Now this is a debate! :thumb:

The Asian guy claimed Big tits..

[Mitch]

Yeah and in the first one the not really an Italian guy got her too... but Tackleberry married her in I think it was PA3, or 4

[K9]

No No No... this can't be right. :bang:

[Stubby]

…my background has been checked by local, state, and federal law enforcement – there is no question that I am a law abiding citizen.

Did you want a cookie? http://www.dakuda.com/images/forums/lame.gif

[Mitch]

It's true, It's true.... they did the whole order of the sword wedding, and on the honeymoon when they were undressing it was five minutes of them taking off all the weapons they were packing...

[Renegade]

Now I am somewhat offended you confused me with a professional. But I can let this pass in a non-violent manner.

As far as name calling, it was an absolute compliment. Most of my gun carrying friends grin when called Tackleberry. Is tackleberry a bad thing?
Sorry I offended you Ian - that was not my intent. I am neutral on Tackleberry but I am quite aware of your objective in using him.

Too bad DSO would wish to prohibit your gun carrying friends from attending DSO functions in public...if they could.

[K9]

Mrs. Kirkland-Tackleberry
Say, you know your PA material.

[Mitch]

Not a plethera of knowledge on the names.... but the little accident prone guy was the best!!!

[Mitch]

He started the whole riot in the first one when he tossed the apple over his shoulder and hit the thug in the head.

[K9]

You'll be pleased to know that there will be a new PA around the corner.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0418068/

Won't be the same without the old man.

BTW Chet, I accept your appology to the group. Thanks.

[Mitch]

Really cool... can't wait to see it, I hope it has a bunch from the original. I'll have to check it out.


Oh sorry where were we???

[K9]

Oh sorry where were we???

We were accepting Chets Appology.

[Mitch]

But hey... the funniest part had to have been when we Harris' head went up the horses ass... I was in tears. :up:

[Mitch]

Oh OK... accepted

[K9]

Very Well..! :mrgreen:

Does anyone else here accept the appology?

[Stubby]

Very Well..! :mrgreen:

Does anyone else here accept the appology?

I don't know, I'm still kind of sore at the sarcasm. I know my feelings were hurt. You guys are already over it? It must be that time of the month for me. :flip:

[Mitch]

naaawww... he wouldn't be sarcastic!!!


would he? :shock:




stupid fat fingers

[K9]

Probably because I misspelled apology.

There, try that.

[jp]

oh yeah and i accept your appoligy too.

douchebag

jp

[Mitch]

to be continued....